Last year Prime Minister Orbán declared that “Hungarians see themselves as the late descendants of Attila the Hun,” and the country’s citizens are proud of their Hun-Turkic origins and their language which is related to the Turkic languages. Orbán also reminded his audience that there was a time when it was an insult to say that Hungary was Europe’s most westerly Eastern people; now given the admirable achievements of the Turkic countries, calling Hungarians an Eastern people is a form of praise.
Not everybody agrees. Credible linguists claim that the Hungarian language belongs to the Finn-Ugric language family. The Hungarian Academy of Sciences and top liberal arts university ELTE believe that the “relationship among the Hungarian, Finnish and Lapp languages could be accounted for by the fact that these peoples were the descendants of an ancient great nation” the Uralian peoples. (Read more here.)
The Hungarian Turanism movement started in the 19th century and claimed that Hungarian people are the descendants of the peoples of the East, mainly Central Asia. In the 20th century the movement was connected to Hungarian fascism. Turanists argued that they were racially superior to other Europeans who were “corrupted by Judaism” and Hungary is a bridge between East and West. Fascist leader Ferenc Szálasi, head of the Arrow Cross movement believed that, due to its unique historical and geographical position. Hungary would play a role equal to, or even more important than Germany in building the new European order. Turanist (Turkic) Hungary is destined to be the mediator between East and West and Szálasi argued that neither fascist Italy nor Nazi Germany were prepared to accomplish this unique task.
Hungarian Turanism is in fashion again and linguistics is not a science anymore; everything is politics in Budapest. On 20 November an international conference entitled, “TURKPA in the First Ten Years and the Future of Inter-Parliamentary Cooperation: New Approaches to Cooperation” was held in Izmir, Turkey. TURKPA is the Parliamentary Assembly of Turkic Speaking Countries. Besides Turkey, diplomats and scientists came from Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.
Hungary was represented by Mr. László Kövér, Speaker of the Hungarian National Assembly. He addressed the opening session, expressing his deep pleasure that Hungary is now officially part of the assembly of Turkic speaking countries. “Our Turkic brothers have accepted us as one of them,” Kövér said. Hungary has been an observer of the group since 2014 and member of the Turkic Council since September of this year.
Well folks, the Hungarian language is now officially a Turkic language and will stay that way while Mr. Orbán is in power. After that, I cannot guarantee it.
György Lázár
I speak fluent Hungarian. When I lived in South Korea, I was surprised to find a number of similarities in structure and some words, between Korean and Hungarian. I attribute this to the Ural mountain area. Hungarian is Finno-Uralic; Korean is Ural Altaic. When I couldn’t understand what some of my Korean students were writing in English one day, I happened to translate it into Hungarian, and boom, I understood what they were saying!! Fascinating.
There are many similarities with Japanese as well.
Great buncha guys in that photo. Would love to have them over to my place for a round of Indian leg wrestling and to hear them swap anecdotes on how they keep women, and minorities in their place, how they rob the poor, to fatten themselves by posing as their nation’s savior.
If Mr. Kovács / John Smith made such pronouncements we could dismiss them as simply bollocks, but when the dictator Orbàn does we have to consider the intentions of the bollocks. It is pretty clear by now that he’s building a regime pretty similar the Azeri, Kazhak or the Erdogan ones, dragging the country away from Europe, away from the checks and balances, rule of law, human rights and transparency. And Orbàn wants the unfortunate Hungarians to be also proud of that (one also has to love Big Brother).
Is it possible that intentions may have more to do with economic strategy? Perhaps MOL could get a foothold in Kazakhstan or Turkmenistan. Perhaps Hungary could open up those markets for more Hungarians goods, such as water purification units, agricultural goods and so on.
I don’t see how any of that drags Hungary away from Europe.
I know, your own ideological leanings dictate for you to make the argument that you did. But let us be logical about this. Assuming that Hungary’s government wants to emulate the governments of those countries, it would not have to declare Hungarians to have some Turkik roots to do so. Just go ahead and do it. On the other hand, if Hungary wants good economic relations with those countries, it helps to build such rapports, even if it is arguably based on some distortions of historical fact.
Joe
Nothing wrong with the economic intentions which have proclaimed for six years now (opening to the east, trading houses, freeing the axe murderer, etc), except being unrealistic and having failed at significant cost (check out trade volume and see the scaling down of the trading house system).
If you dont see how Hu being turned into a (fascist) dictatorship your are blind or a fidesznik and ,btw, almost all dictatorships have stifled their economies – the ruinous effects can be observed in Hu too: deteriorating education, stagnant productivity, limited investment, lower growth, growing inequalities, etc.
https://bbj.hu/news/russian-hungarian-consortium-inks-giant-rail-deal-in-egypt_155478
Perhaps not such a failure. You are looking at the wrong stats, which do not tell the whole story. Furthermore, you might want to contemplate those stats without the measures taken, what they would look like. All new EU members in the East are experiencing growing dependency on the rest of the EU market for exports. That is because capital comes mostly from other EU states, while domestic capital was wiped out 30 years ago. Outside of EU is where opportunities lie for Hungary’s own domestic firms to extend beyond Hungary, not EU’s already oversaturated and stagnated market. Measure of success arguable, but at least there is a government in place which tries. Better than FX debt bubble, which is the only thing the previous guys left behind.
HA-HA-HA-HA-HA ….. Mr Lázár seems not to be happy with our hungarian hun past and with our great-great garandfather ATILLA -sometiomes speleed ATTILA – . HUN-GARIA, HUNGARY after Mr. Lázárs theory is created by president Orban and this theory will remain still president Orban remains….
From a historical point of view, it is a plausible argument. The Magyar tribes did spend about 200 years being allies or vassals of the Kazars, who were a Turkik people. It is hard to imagine that cultural and genetic transfer did not occur, therefore connection can be claimed.
From a policy standpoint, it can help Hungary build good relations with these countries, helping Hungarian companies do more business there perhaps. Nothing wrong with that! It seems like good pragmatic strategy to me!
They claim that they descended from Turkik people, not that they interbreed with them after arriving from a Finno Ugric origin. These are two very different claims. The later is plausible, the former has no convincing evidence.
What does it matter, as long as Hungary gets to build better relations with those countries?
Magyar history before Carpathian basin is patchy, mostly lacking solid evidence either way. Linguistic connections are not necessarily ancestral connections. Look at India, where it is said that the majority of its population is set to speak English soon. Does that mean that historians thousands of years from now should assume English ancestry of Indians, in the absence of other evidence?
I am personally skeptical of Turkik origin theory myself, but at the same time, given lack of evidence either way, like I said, cannot be fully excluded. I personally believe that multiple origins is the most plausible. And in the meantime nothing wrong with some pragmatism for the present and the future, which is more important than the past.
Not surprised that Joe doesn’t think a reality-based approach is more appropriate. There are countless examples of countries with very disparate cultural and linguistic backgrounds finding common ground and cooperation without resorting to mythologizing. The US and Japan are one example.
And of course, Joe the expert thinks there is a “lack of evidence either way”. Like I said, Dunning-Kruger.
“And of course, Joe the expert thinks there is a “lack of evidence either way”
Please be my guest and provide solid historical evidence which can settle with definite confidence the true Magyar identity.
” Look at India, where it is said that the majority of its population is set to speak English soon”
Yes, said by you, but then you’ve got a bit of form for using dodgy analogies and statistics; but I suppose it depends how long you mean by “soon”. The use of English is expanding in India, so eventually your statement may become true.
However, currently it stands around 10 -15%, a significant minority, but hardly a majority. A better analogy might be the Nederlands where 80-90% speak English, (not because both Dutch and English are both Germanic languages).
Joe ! I’m delighted to see that you are not only an economist, a statistician, a political scientist, a historian, a sociologist, but well versed in the way of the Kazars as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if tomorrow you will tell us that you are a practicing gyneocologist.
How about the claim that through Góg and Magóg, Hungarians are connected to Adam, that the Sumerian civilization was in fact a Hungarian invention ? First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin ?
Captain Obvious ! Why don’t you take your stupid ideas and ride a pony on your favorite troll farm.
“Why don’t you take your stupid ideas and ride a pony on your favorite troll farm.”
Because annoying you and all other “friends of Hungary” on this site by calling you all on BS, is just too hard to pass up on.
BTW, in the era of information one can indeed be knowledgeable in a wide variety of subjects. In fact, in my case, it helps professionally speaking. And yes, occasionally I can also be a “practicing gynecologist” (although I think no man will ever master the practice fully). You should try it too sometimes! It might help you cheer up a bit.
“BTW, in the era of information one can indeed be knowledgeable in a wide variety of subjects.”
Joe is a perfect case study of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
You are the perfect example of the clueless academic. Far too many of those brainwashing our youth and entire society into an idealistic, at the same time self-loathing world-view, completely removed from reality.
„… at the same time self-loathing world-view, completely removed from reality.“ Basically, the Indians were Indian speaking?
@ Joe
I would like to help you to free yourself of one of the illusions you have created for yourself and your farm manager down here. I find your “analysis” highly amusing. Every time I read your comments, I am cheered up by the knowledge that you are a pinch-hitter for a mini-train enthusiast from Felcsút. You should call yourself “Mr Fixit” 🙂