Recently Hungary introduced a new holiday – National Cohesion Day to commemorate the “dire consequences” of the Trianon Peace Treaty, signed on June 4, 1920, following Austro-Hungary’s defeat in World War I.
The Treaty was the result of The Peace Conference in Paris where Allied Powers negotiated the peace terms with the defeated Central Powers. Today historians agree that the treaty was flawed and later created new conflicts in Europe.
Hungary’s ruler Admiral Horthy first supported the Treaty and sent a delegation to sign it led by Count Albert Apponyi. Later he claimed that the Treaty was unfair, demanded redress and initiated an unprecedented campaign of nationalist propaganda – the cult of Trianon. Horthy declared that the Treaty was the cause of Hungary’s ills, it was a diktat and that Hungary was unable to exist within the new borders. He used this propaganda to solidify his power and to justify the country’s pro-Hitler alliance as a way to regain territory. Hungary’s fascist alliance culminated in the declaration of war on the Soviet Union and the United States.
Hungarian-Americans always rejected Horthy, his regime, and the cult of Trianon. While the Treaty may have been flawed, today it shouldn’t be used to rev up nationalist fervor or preach hatred against Hungary’s neighbors.
Hungarian neo-Nazis stage a demonstration in Budapest in front of the Embassy of Romania on National Cohesion Day, June 4, 2016.
Sit in protest in front of the Embassy of Romania led by Hungarian neo-Nazi Mr. Gyula Zagyva (in checkered shirt in the middle) in Budapest, on National Cohesion Day, June 4, 2016.
It is important to remember that on March 15, 1927, Hungarian-Americans formed the Anti-Horthy League with 36 organizations and 136 delegates present. The League declared its struggle “against Horthy type gangsters” and warned about the danger of “Horthy’s agents” who were trying to lure Hungarian-American organizations with financial support to promote Horthyism in the United States. Sound familiar?
National Cohesion Day invitation 2016, Los Angeles
On Saturday, Hungarian-American organizations supported by the Hungarian government organized National Cohesion Day events and preached Horthy-type nationalist propaganda here in the United States. Budapest recently even appointed diplomats as National Cohesion Consuls.
Imre Szakács, Consul of National Cohesion talks while Consul General Ferenc Kumin listens on National Cohesion Day 2015 in New York City
Great Hungarian-Americans, Béla Bartók, Albert Szent-Györgyi and Béla Lugosi rejected Horthy, his nationalist propaganda and the cult of Trianon. I think they would protest National Cohesion Day and the revival of Horthyism today.
György Lázár
National Confusion Day more like – or suck it up day.
“……..and later created new conflicts in Europe.”
The only new conflicts were of Hungary’s making – or Orban’s stirring.
To be a member of the EU you had to relinquish all irredentist desires – and Orban signed of his own free will.
Suck it up, Hungary – use your Bank Holidays for something worthwhile.
Try be ‘a fair and decent member of the EU’ day or ‘honour your international responsibilities’ day. Or ‘be fair to LGBTI minorities’ day?
But for god’s same suck up Trianon and get rid of those greater-Hungary maps.
You are right!
Hungarians?
They are obsessed with Trianon, yet few have correct historical knowledge about the events leading up to the Peace Treaty and the basis that formed the decisions. There wasn’t a truly responsible Government in Hungary at that time either. The 1919 “soviet republic” (Tanácsköztársaság) the Red Terror, and other events did not bode well for Hungary in the eyes of the winning powers.
Hungarians cannot fathom and will not accept the truth.
It was the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy that lost a World War, a war they started and as a result, the Monarchy broke up and been divided NOT HUNGARY!
Without writing volumes on history, the fact remains, Hungarians have not archived any really great things since Trianon, cannot assimilate Western culture, work ethics, business practices and democracy. They blame everyone else for their own mistakes and invent only excuses for doing very poorly, not as others, new technological, medical end or artistic creations.
They idealize their worst deeds, (the 1956 uprising too) and their national holidays are celebrations mostly historically falsely described events (Nándorfehérvár) or outright loosing battles and wars.
Hungarians in general, as a nation, cannot face the past, cannot learn from their own mistakes, or other people’s mistakes, will not take good advice, or any advice for that matter, they are stubborn, poorly informed and will not face and live down their past bad deeds to leave it behind and start anew.
In Hungary the success is achieved mostly by their own dictators and criminals. Only a few people could be successful with honesty, honor, talent and knowledge, because those who lack all of these qualities will work against them, until they leave the country.
Gyula Bognár,you may have a Hungarian name but with this attitude you are no Hungarian at all.Since when is the 1956 uprising considered our worst deed?I cant even comment on your other statements as they are as retarded as it comes but seriously,why would we want to “assimilate” western culture and since when is Hungary not considered a democracy?You are either a troll or just unbelievably stupid.
Ivan, you may have a Russian name but with the attitude you are certainly Russian in outlook. Since when did Hungary have a democracy?
Just as a Russian doesn’t understand democracy – then you don’t .
Orban’s illiberal government is not a democracy in any sense of the word. Frozen in transition under Orban and with a ‘Kadar’ mindset – Hungary is being ripped apart by the corruption of the old communist Nomenklatura families who held power during the ‘Russian’ years.
Families like M8tolcsy, Ader, Szijjártó, Lázár, Kövér and Orban et al.
Confused of London? Hardly
Confused of Canada? Probably.
Unbelievingly stupid (and ignorant of matters Hungarian) certainly.
Well, here we go again. That is, they go again.
Yes, Charlie London whoever you are, confused you seem to be to a great extent.
According to George Lazar: “It is important to remember that on March 15, 1927, Hungarian-Americans formed the Anti-Horthy League with 36 organizations and 136 delegates present.” I only wonder, why is it important. Why should we pay attention to the Hungarian-Americans of almost a hundred years ago, most of them agricultural laborers, not historians. Completely different way of seeing/judging the world then those of later generations.
And then Gyula Bognar, a retired Architect who enjoys to claim being the ultimate historian. Quoting him: “They idealize their worst deeds, (the 1956 uprising too) and their national holidays are celebrations mostly historically falsely described events (Nándorfehérvár) or outright loosing battles and wars.”
Just what does he mean by: “their worst deeds, (the 1956 uprising too)” I am questioning him as a “56 Freedom Fighter.” (—he was at the time, a young child?)
I thought it was the Russians and Communists who judged 1956 this negative way.
What they love to do, and they are supposedly the experts, is to bed-mouth others, and attempt to deny everybody else their freedom of speech and freedom of thought.
And naturally criticize whatever they do, while most of them only know how to set one Hungarian against the other. Two Hungarians representing three lines of thought has always created more enemies then friends.
I should ask, why does George Lazar pick on the United Hungarian House, (Los Angeles) instead of producing something positive? This infighting he practices is ugly and counterproductive, it would therefore be advisable for him to stop this.
One of the former US Presidents, champion of freedoms, Jefferson rightly claimed, that freedom of speech thought and the press, should be presenting all information and news, and the listeners and readers should make up their own mind what they agree with, and what not. In this he included all those, who criticized him as well.
This attitude if practiced by Hungarians would help Hungarians and Hungary.
Let us not forget, all Hungarian Freedom Fighters, 1848 as well as 1956, stood up for these rights.
Leslie
Covina, CA.
Leslie.
Why don’t you get off your arse and find out what’s really happening in Hungary today?
Then we can have proper dialogue.
Charlie.
Yes,I only just happen to live in Hungary,I certainly have no idea what is going on here,you are so right.People like Gyula badmouthing Hungarians,if he really feels like all our historical battles that we remember are pathetic and we need to change altogether because according to him we are stubborn and stupid people and we should just adapt to the great west then fuck him,and to you,I’m no fan of Orbán,the west and east is corrupt in different ways but both are corrupt nonetheless,if you fail to see it you are a fool. Orbán is the less evil of the two other possibilites namely Jobbik and the corrupted western asslicking Left. Its that simple,for now the Fidesz is the best choice,not beacause its an awesome party but because the other alternatives are far worse.
Ha! Ha! Ha!
It’s because you live in Hungary you don’t know what’s going on.
You certainly have not experienced democracy.
“Democracy is the worst of all systems – but for the rest.”
This is a Hungarian/Canadian site so discussing the US is out of bounds.
However the US is a fine country – with a few imperfections.
Hungary is a fine dictatorship – with more than a few imperfections.
Some advice – if you live in Hungary – move.
Oh,and talking about ruling families look around in America for christs sake,it comes off as rather hypocritical when Americans criticize eastern europe for their corruption which is indeed real but doesnt even come close in extent to that of America.
I’m a Hungarian,I have my roots here,no matter how bad it gets I will stay,as we say “gyáva népnek nincs hazája”,if my ancestors have moved away because of the slightest of inconveniences there would be no Hungary today but given your attitude towards the whole situation I have no illusions that you understand what I’m talking about.I have never been to the US but I lived in Germany for half a year and visited the UK and France too and I have yet to witness their greatness.All i saw was countries that are slowly losing their culture and becoming lame overly pc,guilt ridden pussies who in their great effort to become more pc are killing free speech.Hungary isnt a dictatorship and you know it,if you dont then I’m truly sorry for you because you have no idea what you are talking about.
I think you should stay! I agree.
It’s the intelligent ones who leave.
Dear George,
.
You are a skank.
.
The National Cohesion day IS NOT A FASCIST, but a petriotic day.
.
Shame on you, Lázár “copatriot”.
Andras, exactly my sentiments. Leslie
Ha! Ha! Ha!
You are correct dr Fodor!!
You are the fascist.
How’s your wonderful Hungarian health service?
There’s more hospital-acquired infections than there are Hungarian road accidents!
And they use wooden planks as bed guards to stop the elderly falling out.
Tell us about Semmelweiss?
Charlie London, when you run out of good arguments, you resort to your naural, four-letter vocabulary. Are you not able for more? Leslie
When you’re on the same side as dr fodor you should wonder if indeed you are on the right side?
Hungarians have such a knack on choosing the wrong side in history!
Hellon Charlie,
over the last more then 15 years I had my debates and disagreements with Andras, blocked his e-mails from my sites due to his foul language, the fact that his knowledge or use of the Hungarian language was beneath any level, specifically that of the title he claims as “Habil”.
His at times biased opinion about Orban, is his opinion to which he is entitled regardless of my thoughts on the subject. On a rare occasion he even has remarks I may agree with.
As far as I am concerned, he has the same freedom of speech and thought as I demand for myself. Our agreements and/or disagreements do not influence these rights.
I will stand up for the same rights for you too, just give up the cuss- words and empty rattling noises.
Leslie
Er excuse me? When have I curtailed anyone’s right to free speech?
I’m from England. Democracy is in my blood – but I recognise that Hungary doesn’t have anything near democracy.
Hungarians who vote for Fidesz don’t understand democracy either – because Hungary is a Commocracy run by a dictator – Orban who follows and admires Putin.
Most Hungarians I’ve met (I have a house in rural Hungary) are seemingly happy a with a Commocracy. Rigged elections, gagged media, partisan judiciary….. the list could be endless.
Good luck with your ‘free speech’ and 2018 elections.
Btw you agreed with ‘skank’ – aren’t you being hypocritical?
I agree – if you argue it – that it has five letters and not four.
But skank? Arse? Skank? Arse?
About the same to me.
The problem I have with all this revisionist stuff isn’t the fact we are commemorating a very tragic event in Hungarian history, it is the fact that these commemorations are not meant with the teaching of the past to help protect Hungarians in the future, but instead they are used as a tool to stir up ethnic tensions with the surrounding countries of Hungary. They have been a political tool to rile up ethnic Hungarians in neighboring territories. What I do not understand is why do we keep going down this path, we know that the only possible way to reobtain this land is through the means of war. There will be no country on this planet that will not condemn Hungary for something like that, nor will we have allies in doing it. Giving ethnic Hungarians does not, under any circumstances help Hungarians in neighboring countries but it does outrage Hungarians in Hungary who are trying to live in a peaceful Hungary, who certainly do not need or want the ethnic vote on election day since these voters do not pay taxes or contribute to the Hungarian economy and simply vote based on loyalty for their free citizenship. Another big issue is the fact that this revisionism is often supported and influenced by extreme right wing militias, that certainly have their own agenda with regards to this. Extreme ANYTHING is bad for the country, exploiting Hungarians, ALL Hungarians, be it in Hungary, surrounding countries, in the US or Canada should be protested by ALL Hungarians. Exploiting us to support a corrupt regime, a criminal regime, I would expect all 1956 freedom fighters to stand up against. What we feel with the Hungarian people is not hatred as many propagandists would like everyone to believe, we are frustrated. Frustrated by the many generations of complacent Hungarians, Hungarians who forgot it seems about the torture, and pain inflicted upon the Hungarian people by EXTREME IDEOLOGY from both the left and the right. Being a proud Hungarian these days is hamis, it is the delusional and utter stupidity of Hungarians who deem it necessary to be proud of everything, even if it is a total farce. Are we really this naive? For all the greatness, for all of the perseverance, for all our pride, can we not have real ideas, want real freedom? What happened in 1920 was a result of having a government with extreme ideas, one which consisted of ethnic cleansing, of Hungarianization of territory that was not ours to begin with. Was it a fair punishment? Probably not, but it is what the world decided and yes, we can keep crying about it, or we can do something about it, but first we should take care of the issues within the borders of Hungary, issues that consist of keeping the government accountable for lying, cheating and stealing. It is utter foolishness to allow a government to distract people from the truth, to talk about turuls and daydreams of this great big Hungary with a fairytale economy, one that wasn’t all Hungarian to begin with. Hungarian culture is kept alive by all Hungarians and even ones who aren’t even Hungarian, but whose ancestors were Hungarianized and we accept that because they are proud Hungarians right? Because they identify as Hungarians? Eat up the Hungarian gulas Leslie, but this Hungarian is not stupid and unlike you, my freedom fighing father taught me that I should not only be wary of extremism on both sides but also not to give in to the pressures of being a “proud Hungarian” for the price of selling my country out to thugs who want nothing more than to keep me poor, uninformed and looking to them for my survival. Burn me at the steak if you like, but I know especially for Hungarians, the truth always hurts! Hungarians need to take a long hard look where this silly ideology has led us and remember the last 100 years not with fondness and pride, but rather with scepticism at where our people have gone wrong, over and over again.
Wow! Liz – with such conviction and feeling. Well said.
You encapsulate so well the tragedy of the Hungarian – it’s so powerful when it comes from the heart.
And there’s no irony here, Liz – I truly mean it.
Yes, even now Hungary is made up of at least 12 ‘Nationalities’ so all this ‘Magjar Purity’ cobblers is just bunkum.
Your Father would have been a good politician for Hungary – a good democrat certainly in a country that latently rejects democracy.
And so many in Hungary are blind to the looting.
Hungary needs to face forward more.
“There’s none so blind as those who cannot see.”
Thanks Charlie, My father is turning in his grave over this I am sure. He wouldn’t have made a very good politician even though he was great for seeing things for what they really are and being honest about it. He however, was never one for sugar coating things to put it mildly. He would not be able to compose himself when it comes to yelling his thoughts from the rooftops, and the language he would use would shock a street thug.
Charlie-Democracy is in your blood because you are English?Dont make me laugh:D Take a look at history what you were doing with Ireland even in the not so distant past.I guess shooting civilians during Bloody Sunday was a prime example of a free,liberal and democratic England. Btw its only Hungarians who understand Trianon,how it hurts and how our brethren who were left at the other sides of the borders suffered. We remember these things because its part of our history and because they deserve to be remembered. Those Hungarian who were left at the other sides of the border and remained Hungarians deserve this,the knowledge that they are not foreigners even though they live in another country.When you label everything “nazism” that is close to patriotism you will get countries that have no identity.Have fun in your no-go muslim zones in London,Sweden sends their regards they are already there.Your ancestors must be proud of you…
The Northern Ireland conflict goes back to William of Orange 300 odd years ago.
You Hungarians really do live in the past.
And nothing to do with democracy.
It was religious bigotry – and goodness knows there’s plenty of that in Hungary.
A good example – for the wrong country.
As for Trianon – it was a self-inflicted wound of Hungary’s own making. Horthy – Hitler – Hubris.
During the ‘negotiations’ the other side were astonished with Hungary’s attitude. “They behave as though they won the war!”.
If Trianon hadn’t occurred Hungarians would have been in the minority and may even be living in a differently-named country.
Imagine?
Orban is already busy causing division and trouble in your region – image what it would be like if Trianon hadn’t occurred?
Your Great Leader signed away any irredentist desires when he signed the accession treaty in 2004 – he did it for you Ivan. Not Medgyessy or Gyurcsány, but Orban. For you, Ivan – you vote for him.
So be a good European stop whining about Trianon and ‘Greater’ Hungary? There’s a good chap. Forget it, It’s not deserving – suck it up, eh?
As is typical with your controlled media, the picture painted by them is completely different in reality – I live in London. There are no ‘no-go’ areas here.
The atmosphere is much happier than in Hungary though!
And lastly I accuse nobody of ‘Nazism’ – you’ve made some sort of reading error there, chum.
So be happy under unhappy Orban with the high taxes, the low wages, the propaganda, the corruption, the nepotism.
And stay there, Ivan.
Stay. The hurt will heal better when Orban goes.
‘Greater Romgary’ ‘Greater Slovagary’ ‘Greater Hunmania’ ‘Greater Hunvakia’
This is fun!!
I didnt vote for Orban,I live in Hungary,I’m a Hungarian but I’m a citizen of another country which just happened to be taken from Hungary because of Trianon.
Also Bloody Sunday happened in 1972 not 300 years before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
Killing innocent civilians isnt the most liberal democratic thing is it Charlie?Also keeping a whole nation under English rule by force isnt the most democratic thing either Charlie.The English just love blaming it on religion but really,was it caused by religion?Because the Irish think differently about this.Just saying,I know democracy is in your blood as your ancestors pillaged and murdered through the whole world(mainly africa and asia where people couldnt fight back effectively,havent had much luck in europe though)and that wasnt 300 years ago either.Oh btw I have been there,I have seen it and have fun in the next 100 years when those you fucked in the past come back and colonize you the same way,but I guess you wouldnt mind that either,no-go zones by religious fanatics are pretty cool and liberal,so I indeed mean it,have fun watching your country going the way it is going now,I just hope your fellow countrymen doesnt ruin this thing with their fascist,nazi,right-wing bullshit right? and you wont become a fascist anti-democratic,immigrant hating,horrible horrible nazi country like Hungary.One can only hope:)
Bloody Sunday? And what about this?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
This is not a blog about Great Britain – so I’ll keep it short.
You are a fool when it comes to history. You have to take into account context.
“Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it.”
I notice no comments on Trianon.
When I visit Hungary (often) I’m amazed how your TV and newspaper portals are obsessed with events in Britain. ‘Kisalfold’, for example dwells on negative events – our floods recently, trouble with our youths etc. You just love the schadenfreude.
One thing you ought to understand, Ivan? Because of our open democratic press, we wash all our dirty linen in public – so your press have rich pickings for negative stories.
Compared with your press? Orban (MTI) won’t allow negative Hungarian stories at all.
Not that it is a problem for us. As you probably found out when you stayed here; the British don’t give a tinker’s cuss (four letters or otherwise) about Hungary – most of the population don’t even know where it is.
Handy for my partner who is sometimes so ashamed of her country (Hungary) that I’m forbidden to let friends know where she’s from. Same with Hungarian MEPs and many Hungarian Jews who have ‘escaped’.
Now run along, Ivan – and do some more homework on your own history – it’ll make you even more depressed – just stay over there.
I imagine you sitting there with your map of greater hungary – which was only ever great internally to its own misguided electorate – your black Magyar uniform over your pot belly and with your Kövér moustache and near-nazi motifs, drinking Palinka and smoking Russian smuggled tobacco.
Nice picture!
Hungary? Where?
Russian smuggled tobacco would be good actually.This isnt a topic about Great Britain thats right,I wouldnt even have brought it up if it wasnt for your smug statement about your democracy which is obviously a very new thing in Britain,its funny how you people still retained your nationalistic pride but in a twisted way.I bet the Arabs find it amusing too.I dont watch Tv so I really cant comment on that but the point of “news” is that it delivers “news” from all around the world.You obviously have really amazing friends if they feel ashamed of their own ancestors.I know some of these people too,good job on being a coward and running away.If you dont agree with something in your country try to change it,but thats natural selection at work I guess,who needs people who only stay because of the benefits and run away the first chance they get when things get bad. Btw what comments on Trianon do you want?I obviously dont agree with it,it served as a ending to the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy as dividing the country between many different ethnicities who are in debt to the west was a great idea from their point of view,we wont forget or forgive though and we will commemorate it so our descendants wont either.May I ask why you visit Hungary so often though and if you are English why are you even commenting on a site about Hungarians?Just interested:)
Since you ask:
I love a Hungarian woman.
I have a house in rural Hungary.
I have some friends in Hungary.
I love the Hungarian countryside – right by the Danube.
I am a European tax payer and can’t believe how Hungarians are being taken for a ride simply because they don’t understand democracy.
As a member of the EU (for the moment) I don’t like my taxes being trousered.
I don’t like how Hungary treats LGBTI people.
I don’t like how Hungary treats Hungarian Roma.
I don’t like how Hungary educates its children.
I don’t like how Hungary treats Hungarian Jews past and present.
I don’t like how Hungary can’t just simply create a fair society.
I don’t like how poorer people are treated in the Health Service.
I don’t like the ‘gratitude envelope ‘ system – it is corrupt.
I don’t like the high taxes and the low wages.
I don’t like corrupt Fidesz.
I don’t like Orban.
I don’t like the Roman Catholic Unchristian Church.
I like Hungarian food – but in moderation – the Lángos, pickle, Szalonna, and Kolbasz. They are enjoyable instant-heart-attack.
Apart from that…..
I love Hungary!
Since you ask.
However
“…democracy which is obviously a very new thing in Britain,”
……is such an ignorant statement that I won’t dignify it with a response – nor continue with this dialogue.
Try 300 years?
Perhaps you are a Turanian!!!
Just to do people who leave justice – you call them ‘running-away’ cowards – you can’t get further from the truth.
My partner had three concurrent jobs -bank teller, laundry worker and dog breeder and chalet-maid in Austria.
Before that she was a National Karate champion and then a European Karate champion winning a gold, two silvers and a bronze medal.
Even for all this hard work she could not keep her head above water financially. She just couldn’t understand how, working so hard, she couldn’t make a living as they do in other countries. She understood that a good work ethic was not rewarded. She saw people with far less knowledge being promoted above her – because of who they knew. And then relied on her to do the work.
In an effort to save her house, she realised she had to do something radical.
She learnt English – worked very hard at it.
She came to England as a rooky Health-Care worker – one of the lowliest jobs that no one wanted to do.
She was exploited and worked 18hr days for low pay. Low pay in England means four times what she earned in Hungary in aggregate.
She was able to support her son through university and start to pay off the mortgage.
Being driven and with a strong work ethic she worked long and hard with no sickness days (in 10years so far).
She decided to take her ‘career’ further – but to get on a decent career path she had to start again from the bottom – as an orderly in a hospice. She washed floors emptied bedpans and did the lowliest of tasks – until they had a vacancy for a Health-Care worker.
As a Health-Care worker they sponsored her for an apprenticeship – ‘level three’ – which meant much study even working at a full-time job.
She passed the apprenticeship with flying colours – when two ‘indigenes’ failed.
Imagine? Taking such a course when English is not your mother tongue. Imagine all those essays in English while doing a full-time job?
Having passed level three she just wondered if she ought to try for a nursing degree.
She tried three and was admitted to one of the most celebrated nursing degree universities in England.
She applied and got a bursary £530 a month and is a full time student in her second year.
Even the bursary is twice what she earned in Hungary. A bursary to study!
Hard work, hard work and more hard work which will be rewarded with a degree – a well respected degree in nursing. She will earn the concomitant wage for her position.
Apart from all this she has learned to play the hegedu the anglo-concertina and other instruments – a gifted musician.
She has worked amazingly hard and worked with a focus that I’ve never experienced before. English people are amazed at her success – as am I.
Coward? She did this with immense bravery without a support system that many after her have had. Amazing courage to trust and have faith in her own abilities.
She has helped several Hungarians to come here and give them the support she never had.
There was a Hungarian on the radio recently who has written a book about life in England.
“In England” she said, “you can dream! And your dreams can come true”.
You see, Ivan, it’s a meritocracy. If you work hard you will be rewarded.
Cowards? These are the bravest of people – the bravest of Hungarians.
But you’d never know it in your Palinka haze.
300 years?Mate you gotta be kidding me,check your history,the British Empire was one of the most vile empires of all time and in the very recent past they were still terrorizing ethnicities on their own fucking island,jesus…
I study medicine,I’m in my 5th year and in the summer i worked on the ambulance so yea,I know a bit more about our Health care than you,I witnessed it firsthand and yea its fucked up but I would never choose to leave Hungary just to get more money elsewhere and leave my people,what kind of logic is that.This isnt some 56 shit that people are persecuted and have to leave their own country else they would be killed you do realize this right?I got by myself to where I am now,nobody ever helped me,not my family,not anyone and I’m here so please dont tell me that even if you work hard its somehow impossible to live in Hungary,this is just retarded.Oh and on the Roma,they are treated normally,they are a group of people who just cant live together with anyone,Britain has just as many problems with them as we do,you must know that,you cant integrate them either,you cant do shit with them either,I have distant Roma ancestors and believe me,I know them well,its not the majority who is unfair and keeps them down,its their culture,they dont want to be integrated,sure they want a better life for themselves,no one likes to live like animals but that doesnt mean that they are eager to change the way we would like them to.Also you cant compare the wages of Britain and Hungary,we have a much shittier economy,the wages you earn there are better but not much better compared to your prices.I worked in Germany for half a year and yea the money I earned was amazing COMPARED TO HUNGARIAN prices but it was a pretty shitty wage compared to German prices.
I don’t like the ‘gratitude envelope ‘ system – it is corrupt.
I don’t like the high taxes and the low wages.
I don’t like corrupt Fidesz.
I don’t like Orban.
I don’t like the Roman Catholic Unchristian Church.
On these I agree with you but,we have no real alternative to Fidesz,they are amazing compared to mszp and right now there is no real opposition,either we choose the left which isnt the real left,just people who are willing to sell us out to western interests or the nazi jobbik,who are indeed nazis,not like the avarage people who are just proud of their nationality and want to keep their culture.Every church is retarded,every religion is retarded,we have the Roman Catholic Church,if it helps some people feel better about themselves and helps them connect to their culture in some way then I dont really care,most Hungarians are religious anyway.
The bravest Hungarians were always those who stayed here despite all the odds.My great-grandfather fought in the Hungarian Red Army,during the second world war you can imagine communists were not the most liked people around here and still he remained.My other great-greatgrandfather was in the parliment during the Horthy regime,he was one of those 9 delegates who voted against Horthy and his numerus clausus law and even though he had to leave the country later because the nazis wanted to kill him,he moved back from the US soon and lived(in Slovakia actually because he was born in the same city as me) here until his death.These people were persecuted,and they remained(or returned) and didnt just leave the country when things got bad and never looked back and you tell me it takes courage to just leave your country behind during peace times?
I’m no genius or gifted by any means and I still managed to get where I am now which looks pretty promising,I wont become rich like I could become if I moved to Germany or the US,but I still choose to stay.Money isnt everything,to me my motherland is more important.To you its obviously about higher salaries but remember this,if everyone thinks the same way as you do then god save britain when an economic crisis hits because those who migrated to your country because of the welfare or amazing jobs wont stay when these are taken away from them and if the British people themselves are on this opinion then it will be a funny sight indeed.
Hmmm. I’m not going to convince you about our 300 year old democracy. It’s just a Hungarian foible to have a warped view of history. You can’t even interpret your own history properly so I let it stand.
You misinterpret people’s motives. My partner left to survive – she would have sunk if she had stayed – her son wouldn’t have had the opportunity of university and she would have lost her house.
Not money. Survival. Misinterpret that how you want.
Nurses are so fed up with their working conditions – imagine the last winter where dialysis patients sat on the machines so cold in such cold hospitals that the returning blood made them cold to their fundament. It takes days to get warm again – by that time the next dialysis cycle has arrived.
How do I know? My partner’s mother goes through it. How can you even vote for an arsehole who spends millions of Euros on football stadiums and can let the health service deteriorate like that? It is true – that patients have to take in 3xAA batteries or they won’t have their blood pressure taken.
How can Orban spend millions on his castle – and allow people over 70 just rot in Hospital? If you are even 65 the doctors don’t bother with diagnostic tests – you are just looked after palliatively. If you survive good luck – if you die no one knows what you died of.
Are you a doctor in your 5th year?
Senior doctors want to perpetrate the ‘halopence’ system because they get all the wealthy clients.
And it is corrupt – as you concede – and flies against all the tenets of the Hippocratic oath. Yet doctors milk the system.
Orban’s castle or a declining health system?
It’s nurses who are driven by compassion for their patients that are leaving. Not for moolar.
You won’t accept it I know – but why would a nurse – senior nurse of 20 years experience come to England and work as a lowly Health-Care worker? Not for money, I can assure you.
They can’t tolerate the system.
But you can. The great stay at home and ‘change the system from within’ bollocks.
Well they know a lost cause when they see one – as did my partner.
Not for money – survival. They had been in the system too long and knew it was a dead duck.
Life will always be a dead duck with Orban in charge.
It will take many years to recover from his corruption. But you won’t admit it.
Hungarians vote for money. Energy cuts. Not for the future of their children. Energy cuts.
The electoral power is held by the older pensioners and older workers – and they just love the flat tax. And the energy bribes from Orban. 2018? Same old same old.
Why does Hungary get all those funds? The biggest receiver of cohesion funds in the EU. Beats me. My money too.
The only ‘input’ that keeps M8tolcsy in power – and his boss.
You should be kicked out of the EU – the squandering just goes on and on. Nothing reaches the health system.
Your ‘motherland’ is a squalid, unhappy, unequal, bleating, self-pitying country.
The intelligent young ones are leaving – we’ve helped seven to leave – because it’s a dead duck. They know a lost cause when they see it.
They may have been ‘good little unquestioning communists’ under Kader but the collapse of communism has made them see the light.
Good luck with the sixth year – you good little communist you.
(What will the culmination of your studies lead to? A paramedic maybe ? Or do they allow students to work on them?)
Good luck with your economy too – it will be a strange sight seeing a mass exodus when your economy finally collapses.
So many Hungarians wish they could speak English – it’s the only thing stopping a mass exodus.
Maybe I mean a Mass mass exodus. The mass exodus is already occuring – and they want a decent society – fair to all – not just for money.
I know. Thank goodness for the decent Hungarians I’ve met.
I think its you who have a fucked up view about history but nvm. Btw you talk about survival but millions of Hungarians get by just well here,so if you have to leave because you “cant survive here”,like literally cant surive, you are basically mentally retarded,no offense but there is no other way to put it.Its really hard to imagine these are the intelligent ones who according to you cant find a job and have to sell their houses because they cant sustain themselves.I have nurse friends and while no one is denying that our health care system is unbelievably fucked and that it would need a lot of time and money to “repair” it they also get by fine,its not great but you can earn an avarage salary so I cant imagine that anybody have to leave for survival.For a much better job?ofc.For better salaries?ofc.For better working environment where you can help your patients much better?ofc.For survival?only if you are a cretin.If you are really a great mind and you are so amazingly smart that your genius cant shine in Hungary and you have to leave to the US to continue your research or whatever then okay,go,its amazing,but its mostly the totally retarded who leave as you say who cant even sustain themselves because they are so unbelievably unfit for life.So at the end of the day its 90 percent morons who leave and 10 percent who are actually worth something.I’m sorry only for the 10 percent.Have you been to Turkey?I have been there,they seem normal,the people there are actually okay.Have you been to Germany?Have you seen the Turkish immigrants there?They are the worst scum of earth.Now tell me again how its mostly the intelligent ones who leave.But at the end it doesnt really matter,Hungary has its problems,no one is denying it but we dont need some old liberal hippie english douchebag to tell us what to do and just be a condescending asshole in overall. Your opinion is irrelevant in every way imaginable and you are probably just a sad person who trolls Hungary online.I feel stupid that I partook in this incredibly pointless conversation.I bet you work some dead-end job,you are in your late 40s and your only satisfaction in life is trolling Hungary online and feeding your superiority complex when you visit us.I wont take it away from you.I just dont need sad old men and their midlife crisis in my life.Have fun the conversation from my part is over.Goodbye Charlie.
You’ve just made me realise why Paul Lendvai sub-titled his book on The Hungarians:
“1000 Years of Victory in Defeat”
Your example of Hungarians going to the USA for recognition undermines all your arguments.
They left because they were Jewish – Hungarian Jewish fed up with anti-Semitism. All the Nobel prizewinners had to leave to gain recognition and advance their science.
They left………………. for SURVIVAL, geddit?
Whilst your relative voted against Horthy’s numerus clausus – too many people today promote him in your country.
Probably Magyar Guarda – but it’s institutionalised in your Orban’s government and in society such is your nasty country in rehabilitating war-criminal Horthy who should have been hanged at Nuremberg.
Don’t get me started on the Hungarian Roma – they are Hungarians too it needs to be said, I can feel your prejudice.
Great Britain – get that? Great Britain does not ghettoise, intimidate, deprive, persecute or murder, inter alia our Roma minorities – neither does it keep them in squalor and standpipes and poverty or education deprivation – nor allow a paramilitary thug army to intimidate them.
Don’t insult us – like so much of what you’ve said is not true.
It twigged with me as to why you think we’ve got a ‘young democracy’ – it’s because you don’t understand a parliamentary democracy.
Simply? Because you haven’t got one. That bloke you voted for has no need for parliament or opposition – it’s a private-members bill factory.
Completely impotent and unnecessary.
So go back to the Palinka with your hissy fit and contemplate just one last observation.
Everybody to a person – I promise they have all said it – say how happy and friendly everyone is in multi-cultural, cosmopolitan England. Everyone.
So if they did it for money (and they didn’t) they sure are happier here. For that we are truly grateful. Imagine how we’d feel in facilitating their move and it all going pear-shaped.
Finally I notice you choose not to answer the type of questions you expected of me -“Just interested:)”
It’s the sort of fairness that I’ve had rather a lot of in Hungary.
I suppose I should thank you for letting me have the last word – or for you bowing out -for you – gracefully.
And you are wrong -97%- about me.
Adieu.
Charlie London on June 10, 2016 at 7:13 pm
“The intelligent young ones are leaving ………..because it’s a dead duck.”
Yeah, that’s true. Two million quit Britain.
“400 British citizens emigrate every day…that is leading to the “disappearance” of skilled middle-class professionals…According to the Office for National Statistics, the number of British citizens who have moved abroad has risen by a fifth under the Coalition, reaching 154,000 last year. ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10258081/Two-million-quit-Britain-in-talent-drain.html