Will Hungary’s Fidesz be expelled from the European People’s Party?

It turns out that Sebastian Kurz, Austria’s hard right chancellor, was an agent of George Soros all along. He must have also been an adept confidence trickster to so successfully mislead his Hungarian fans up until now.  Supporters of the Orbán regime are being fed a new narrative Tuesday morning, after the Austrian leader indicated that he supports enacting Article 7 against Hungary and confirmed that Austrian MEPs will vote in favour of Judith Sargentini’s blistering report on the demise of democracy at the hands of Viktor Orbán. The Magyar Idők daily, the main propaganda organ of the ruling party, asks in a headline article: “Is Soros playing his last trump card with Kurz?” Magyar Idők has “unearthed” a piece of information that is alarming party stalwarts in Hungary: Mr. Kurz is a member of the European Council on Foreign Relations, an organization co-founded by the Open Society Foundation of George Soros.

Mr. Kurz added that if Article 7 proceedings begin against Hungary, Fidesz must be removed from the conservative European People’s Party, the largest faction in the European Parliament. Although it is difficult to predict how the vote on accepting the Sargentini Report and its call to begin Article 7 proceedings against Hungary will go, Mr. Orbán is losing his allies. In addition to Austrian MEPs, Polish members of the European People’s Party intend to support the Sargetini Report too. Polish politicians feel that it would be unfair that Poland is undergoing these same proceedings (launched by the European Commission in late 2017) for rule of law violations, while Hungary avoids this fate.

Meanwhile in Strasbourg, Manfred Weber, Leader of the European People’s Party, expressed dismay that Central European University is being targeted by the Hungarian government, and can no longer issue degrees, whilst academic freedom is supposed to be a fundamental value of the European Union. There had been some reports early Tuesday morning that Mr. Weber and Mr. Orbán had agreed that the Hungarian prime minister would strike a conciliatory tone in the European Parliament, during his allotted seven minutes, in an effort to defuse tensions within the EPP. There seemed little evidence of this in Mr. Orbán’s address.

“You want to label a country and a people. You are assuming a grave responsibility when for the first time in the history of the EU, you want to lock out a people from the decisions of the EU. There are and there will be disagreements. We think differently  about the role of national cultures, we see the role of the family in a different way and we have polar opposite views on migration. But these differences are not a reason to shut out a country from decision-making. We would never take it upon ourselves to discriminate against those who do not agree with us,” declared Mr. Orbán. The Hungarian prime minister uttered that last sentence with a straight face. He then accused the European Parliament of extortion.

Viktor Orbán addressing the European Parliament on Tuesday.

The Sargentini Report is specifically about the fact that the Orbán regime has systematically removed anyone who dared not to agree with the ruling party from any positions of significance and from public institutions and, to the best of their ability, from the media landscape as well.

One of the MEPs to respond was Joseph Weidenholzer of Austria. He noted that the EP is not turning on a member state, but rather defending the European Union’s shared values. He then added: there is no such thing as an illiberal democracy. Eastern Europe has already lived through this once, but back then they called it “people’s democracy.”

Nigel Farage of UKIP had a different message for Mr. Orbán: “It is not your country that they have insulted, but you. Please, join the Brexit club. You will feel great.”

The European Parliament votes on the Sargentini Report on Wednesday. Should the vote pass, it is widely expected that Fidesz will either be expelled from the European People’s Party or will leave on its own. The Hungarian government party may then join forces with European fascists and extreme right politicians, which is where Fidesz properly belongs.

43 Comments

  1. Nice summary of the situation. The trolls who come here to defend the Hungarian autocracy by dismissing it’s critics as neo-Marxists, or Lefties, should take heed and head for cover.

    What does Pope Francis, the EU Parliament, the European Court of Justice, the UN and the EU Human Rights Commissioner, the European People’s Party, the right wing Austrian government, the American Enterprise Institute, the Carnegie Institute, Freedom House, The Frontiers of Freedom Institute have in common ? Not one of them is a Left-Wing, neo-Marxist entity. They all object to the Orbán regime’s assault on Conservatism, universal principles of justice, constitutionalism, human rights, and the pursuit of sustainable path to economic development. Mr. Orbán must go. It’s time for his own supporters in Hungary to say no to the affinity fraud which has robbed European taxpayers of billions, and has left Hungary isolated in the world, its reputation, gained in 1956, as a heroic, freedom loving people, in tatters.

    October 23, October 31, are two revolutionary dates fast approaching. One took place 62 years ago, the other 100 years ago. Citizens of Hungary should take their lessons from the heroic actions of their ancestors, rather than from the “mini-Trump”, who is a puppet of Vladimir Putin, and China. They should sweep this gang of thieves into the dustbin of history, and show the world what they are made of.

    • Christopher Adam says:

      Agreed. Hungarian citizens must assume responsibility for their own fate. They must take their fate and future into their own hands, which means that they must do much more than complain privately, put up with the system silently or hope that someone else will do the dirty work for them. Events in Strasbourg might give them a push or encouragement, depending on the outcome of tomorrow’s vote, but their fate rests in their own hands. And standing up to the regime means that they must take risks and step out from their comfort zone.

  2. StrandedinSopron says:

    “Please, join the Brexit club. You will feel great.”

    Don’t hold your breathe on that one Nigel.
    Never mind the millions of corrupt Euros finding itself into the pockets of his family and chums, Orban’s state continues to survive only because of EU funds.

  3. Dear Christopher,

    don’t get fooled of Manfred Weber, who is a master of double talk (as Eva Balogh also noticed recently in her blog).

    I’m the last, who believes in conspiracy, but think about the following:

    – since an interview in the German Bild-Zeitung (from Friday or Saturday) Weber emphasizes, that Orbán has to make concessions
    – more specific he is mentioning the remaining of CEU, also in his speech today
    – he praises himself for being someone, who is building bridges, instead of condemning (Orbán)
    – Weber has a meeting tonight with the EPP members to diskuss how to vote tomorrow
    – coincidentially Orbán, in his final speach today, mentioned that CEU can continue their work in Budapest

    Weber is a calculating, phony man for whom power counts all.
    He would kill his grandmother for a handfull of (FIDESZ) votes (e.g. to become president of the European commision).

  4. Et tu Sebi? Kurtz and Soros, now that’s funny; that news would’ve driven a few people I know in Budapest into an apoplectic frenzy.

    Never fear, Nigel will be their new anti-EU hero. Huxit, will they jump or be pushed?

  5. In all the international news reported that the EU Parlament will vote on sanctioning Hungary pursuant to Aricle 7 of the Lisbon Treaty. That is suspend Hungary’s voting right in the EU. No one can tell the future, but it is going to be a challange to get a 2/3 vote of the 750 members against a fellow member state.

    But like the blond man said, “we will have to see that !” Most of the east European nations likely vote against the motion, even Italy pledged to support Hungary.

    The point is not Hungary being blamed of, but likely all considers it that it will strip every nation of it independence. If Merkel gets her way now, there may never be a stopping of it. The ‘snowball effect’.

    Hungary did NOT cause the bloodshed in the middle east, that is the reason of the millions running foe refuge. Solve the root of the problem !
    And that is not Hungary ! Punishing Hungary will NOT solve this problem. Will not solve any problem, likely will just create even more problems. Like the break up of the entire EU.

  6. It does not really matter what the EU parliament does. Hungary will not change its laws and the government will still protect its citizens.

    • mmburka
      I guess the orban regime will continue to protect its citizens the way it protected their pension funds: by seizing it.
      You’re right, the “protection” racket will go on, for some time at least, just as most of the Sicilian restaurants still pay protection money to the confined, but still existing mafia.

  7. @ Winston

    You are right to point out that one should not put one’s life in the hands of a politician like Manfred Weber. The EPP’s and the EU’s inability to stand up for its own principles, is well known to many who follow with concern the steady rise of Christian alt-right, neo-Fascist, white-supremacist currents within the territory of the EU. The comments of Dr. Adam as well as my own, are driven by this recognition.

    Europe has given ample evidence from her past, how easy it is to level constitutional barriers to authoritarianism, if one switches to the language of patriotism, Christianity, and anti-Communism. Affinity fraud is the oldest trick in the book of political mischief. We know how easily Conservative, Liberal and even Social Democratic Parties can fold under the onslaught of that language, and how private corporations love to swim in such currents. Nazi Germany outpaced all of Europe in its GDP growth rate after Hitler was elected to office in 1933, because the German capitalist class embraced Nazism as its long lost child. Ditto Italy’s business class under Mussolini. It is not a coincidence, that Donald Trump is equally popular in the corridors of Wall Street, or that the US economy now is charging ahead with confidence,because the captains of industry no longer have to concern themselves with the negative impact they are having on climate change, income inequality, the rights of employees or the sustainability of the planet.

    We should have no illusions. A possible anti-Orbán vote in the EU parliament this week will not put an end to the rise of these dangerous currents. It will not silence trolls and the ignorant “bendy geese”, who come here to minimize the threat of Orbán’s assault on the principles of justice, constitutionalism and sustainable economic development. The values Mr. Orbán, and the alt-right has targeted are NOT Left wing values. They are universal values, that constitute the basis of sustainable human existence. Those are the values we are defending here, much to the chagrin of Orbán’s apologists.

  8. StrandedinSopron says:

    Hi Winston,
    “…..don’t get fooled of Manfred Weber,”

    I would have been in agreement but:

    “ManfredWeber will vote in favour of Hungary Article7 procedure, says saw no desire for dialogue on key issues and compromise from Orban”

    That is a mighty achievement by Orban to finally turn Herr Weber.

  9. So some of our fellow Hungarians feel that Hungary should be stripped of its voting rights, therefore lose the ability to fight for its interests within the EU. Now does that mean that Fidesz is being punished or Hungary? Let us consider the EU funds allocation for instance, a less favorable situation might negatively affect Hungary for decades to come. For instance an economic downturn could inflict permanent demographic damage, as it will drive people to migrate. And why exactly? The Sargentini report? Just to give an example of the ludicrous nature of it, it mentions anti-semitism. Really? All Jewish-led studies confirm that Hungary is one of the safest countries in Europe for Jews. I think any EU MP who hails from a country where a Jew is not able to wear a kippah in public without risking bodily harm, who also votes for article 7 against Hungary can only be described as a cynical hypocrite.

    Aside from that, the left’s jubilation of this potential hit against Orban is very short-sighted. EPP group will suffer come next election if they vote for this leftist-liberal initiative. EPP may lose groups other than Fidesz as a result. And they will most likely join the conservative group, not the “far right”. I also think that this has the potential to turn many East European countries and their people into potential Exiteers. Cut their right to vote, cut their funds, why stay then? If any countries beyond UK will start to leave, I think this will be the beginning of the end of the EU. The first mini-global government could collapse due to ideological wars. And it is not the fault of the rise of the right, but rather due to the left’s insistence on maintaining an ideological dictatorship, despite people increasingly rejecting it.

    • “Just to give an example of the ludicrous nature of it, it mentions anti-semitism. Really? All Jewish-led studies confirm that Hungary is one of the safest countries in Europe for Jews.”

      Read the report and you will see that is doesn’t claim Hungary is particularily dangerous for Jews. It does point out that there have been persistent issues with anti-semitism (which does not neccesarily include direct violence). It also points out that Orban used antisemetic langauge in a speech which refered to Soros.

      The report spends very little ink on the issue of anti-semitism. Out of the 66 pages of the report, less then one page of text is related to the issue. Of the 77 numbered points in the report, only two relate to the issue. Most of the report is about other issues.

      Instead of believing Joe’s exaggerations, here is a link to a pdf of the report: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-%2f%2fEP%2f%2fNONSGML%2bREPORT%2bA8-2018-0250%2b0%2bDOC%2bPDF%2bV0%2f%2fEN

      I’ve provided a link to the debate in another comment. You can get another perspective on what concerns the EU there.

      • Once again, you completely missed the point and thus the irony. Hungary was condemned for antisemitism, mostly by the followers of an ideology which when applied over decades in Western Europe has led to a situation where Jews can no longer afford to publicly identify themselves, because doing so tends to lead to bodily harm, which is not the case in Hungary. So who should be condemned?

        Unless this was a desired outcome, it is a classical example of ideologically-driven policy failure. This is where societies that tend to thrive and survive start by identifying the failure and move on to correcting by ditching the failed dogma. This is not a theory I cooked up , but rather something that respected author Jared Diamond wrote about societies. The vote that just took place proves that Western society is not such a society. It is still so convinced of its ways that it even wants to coerce others into adopting the same path, despite its own failing policies.

        I picked this as an example, but taking the rest of the points in the Sargentini report, mostly lead to the same conclusions.

        • It’s a great day when the rule of law and European values are upheld.

          You picked an example and grossly exaggerated. Please, do explain your issues with the other 75 points mentioned in the report.

          • Don’t you think that if even one of the issues raised is problematic, it calls into question the whole thing? After all, it was voted as a package. But yes there are many other problems.

            Academic freedom? Is there academic freedom in the West? Universities have become mostly leftist-liberal institutions, with a proven track record of intolerance towards ideological diversity.

            Media freedom? Is Hungary’s media more polarized than that in the Western world? The only difference is that in the Western World, it is the liberal-globalist dominance that prevails. I don’t think AfD in Germany is treated any better in German media than Hungarian left in Hungarian media. Not to mention the social media censorship law in Germany.

            As for Roma discrimination, half of Eastern European EU members have a far worse record compared with Hungary, so problematic to call out Hungary on this one as well.

            Treatment of migrants? Any worse than what is happening on the Greek islands?

            Most of that report cannot be reasonably justified. Like I said, cynicism and hypocrisy, in the defense of the ideological status quo!

          • No Fidesznik Joe,
            The Earth is not flat!
            I’m szer you know it and that makes you a lying toad as most Fideszniks are.

  10. @ Martaburka

    “It does not really matter what the EU parliament does. Hungary will not change its laws and the government will still protect its citizens.”

    That’s what the Hungarian apologists of autocratic rule said at the start of WWI, at the start of WWII. In both cases the advocates of those who would turn Hungary’s back on Europe, renege on Hungary’s defense of universal values – justice, the rule of law, and sustainable economic development – were defeated. In both cases, it was the people of Hungary that had to pay for the irresponsibility and stupidity of their political leaders. Keep it up martaburka. Strike three is just around the corner. But beware. The people this time around will not be so kind to those, who persist in leading them from one disaster to another. Europe too is getting sick and tired of Hungarian politicians who rip off European tax-payers, to fatten their offshore bank-accounts.

    We shall overcome. Judgement day is coming, Marta, and your “burka” wont save you. You’ll be sent down to play ball, in the minors.

  11. The vote is not just about Hungary’s response to the refugee crisis, as someone implied in their comment. The main points of the Sargentini Report from Euronews:

    1) Allegations of abuse of migrants

    2) Restrictions on freedom of the press

    3) Corruption and conflict of interest

    4) Inadequate privacy and data protection

    5) “Stereotypical attitudes” towards women

    6) Concerns over electoral system

    7) Constitutional concerns

    Details at the link: http://www.euronews.com/2018/09/10/article-7-sanctions-what-does-the-sargentini-report-accuse-hungary-of

  12. Robert Morrison says:

    András B. Göllner on September 11, 2018 at 4:01 pm

    “What does …… have in common?”
    Nothing other than “They all object to the Orbán regime’s assault on Conservatism, universal principles of justice, constitutionalism, human rights, and the pursuit of sustainable path to economic development” according to your expert political scientist opinion, which may or not be the reality, but looks good in writing.

    “Mr. Orbán must go.”
    Yes Sir, 3 million Hungarian voters missed your message on April 8th, but I will relay it to them. I am sure they will act upon it asap.

    And if I may (as a cheese cutting baker) open your eyes to the reality, Orbán’s current stewardship stems from the idiotic migration policies of the left that fortified the will of the Hungarian people to resist at any price. So blame it on Soros and his cronies that Orbán is the PM of Hungary. The Fidesz is the beneficiary in Hungary of the ill-fated OSF activity just as Mr. Trump in the USA and the Brexit supporters.

    Until you and your follower do not face this and deal with it you can cry wolf but nobody (at least in Hungary) will answer your call. That is as simple as it is. 🙁

  13. Robert Morrison says:

    Christopher Adam on September 11, 2018 at 4:42 pm

    “Hungarian citizens must assume responsibility for their own fate”
    That’s what they did on April 8th, 2018.

    “And standing up to the regime means that they must take risks and step out from their comfort zone.”
    You are absolutely right. Hungarians “must take risks and step out from their comfort zone” to stand up against the international neo-fascist pressure in order to keep Hungary an immigration free zone.

  14. OK Mr.Adam, your point is very well taken !
    But just what do you actually suggest they to do ?
    Most Hungarians felt they have just done that on April 8, 2018.
    Spo what’s next ?
    Can you be specific ?
    What would you tell them to do now ?

  15. Some one please correct me in case I may be wrong.

    A;ll the news report from Strassburgh state that it is the EU that started the parlamentary penal process to suspend Hungary’s voting right, under the EU “principle”, since there is NO EU Constitution,instead of taking legal action Hungary for violation of any Constitutional violation.
    That is NOT an action by any private political corporation against some of its members.

    Even if a “political party” has legal grievencies against some other members, that is no concern of an international governmental body.
    Perhaps of international court.

    But according to all the available news sources it is Hungary’s voting right in the EP is being chal;anged.
    The only question, if Hungary will be sanctioned, will they exit ?
    And who else may follow ?

  16. “Hungary will not change its laws and the government will still protect its citizens.”

    This Hungarian government has changed some of Hungarian laws in order to protect itself; but not so much its citizens.

    What exactly do you think Fidesz protecting Hungarians from? The migránsok akik nem akarnak letelepedni Magyarországon? They just wanted to pass through it to get to their promised land, Németország.

    Fidesz is protecting Hungary from a problem they don’t have. They (Fidesz) are creating demons and bogey men in order to frighten its citizens. Kurtz is just the latest; from hero to villain in less than a year.

  17. “I think any EU MP who hails from a country where a Jew is not able to wear a kippah in public without risking bodily harm ….. ”

    Which countries would that be Joe? Hungary may well be safe for Jews (as is most if not all of the western world) in that they are not “bodily harm”ed, but there’s more overt anti-antisemitism there than I’ve come across anywhere else.

    • According to most stats, Most West European countries fit that profile I cited.

      Take Austria for instance:

      https://www.voanews.com/a/anti-semitic-incidents-austria-increase/3819122.html

      477 incidents in 2017, versus 37 in Hungary, despite the fact that Austria’s Jewish population is less than 1/10 that of Hungary’s. So your claim is false in regards to safety for Jews in much of the Western World. Especially for those who dare to identify themselves in public. Yet Austrian EU MP’s voted for that fiasco of a report, even though decades of policies that they insist Hungary should adopt, in fact led to their own country being a dangerous place for Jews.

      Face it, the facts do not support your argument!

      • Facts you say Joe?

        From your link:

        “A record number (477) of anti-Semitic incidents, ranging from verbal and online threats to assaults, were recorded in Austria last year, a nongovernmental organization said in a report”

        This is a claim made by an unidentified NGO; now this may be true, but it conflates verbal and online threats with assaults. There is no mention of Hungary, so I have no idea where you pulled the Hungarian “statistic ” from (37 incidents) or what that number represents, 37 assaults or was it just 37 cases of verbal or online abuse, or maybe just telling ‘Moritz’ jokes in public?

        “According to most stats, Most West European countries fit that profile I cited.”

        You’ve provided no stats, you’re trying to support your original unsubstantiated assertion (that Jews face ‘bodily harm” if they dare to wear a kippa in public) with another.

        Slight problem with this as well:

        “Austria’s Jewish population is less than 1/10 that of Hungary’s”

        According to your link the Jewish population of Austria is between 13,000 and 15,000 (no mention of Hungary), tells me that the figure for Hungary is “around 48,200”. ‘Do the math(s)’ as thye seppos say.

        Face it, your link does not support your assertion.

  18. While a step forward, late or too little as it may be, these procedures will achieve nothing if not reinforced with financial sanctions.
    The EU funds were instrumental in enabling and sustaining the Orban regime, ie. without them the economy would have experienced 1.2% avr recession and the orban mafia would have built up such a war chest (or misappropriated such wealth). The Hungarians would have seen and experienced the actual failure of the regime, propaganda here or there.
    After all the EU net contributors have a duty to look after their taxpayers money, ie. to check the corruption orgy of the Orban regime.

  19. “That is a mighty achievement by Orban to finally turn Herr Weber.”

    Indeed @Sopron.
    Orbàn behaved so bad yesterday, that even Weber felt to put an end to it.
    Orbàn outed himself as a nasty dictator, who was fed up with all those left liberal turned EPP colleagues.

  20. Robert Morrison says:

    @ Chris

    “Central European University is being targeted by the Hungarian government, and can no longer issue degrees” is of course an underhanded incorrect statement. CEU can issue Hungarian degree in Hungary. CEU can issue US degrees in the United States of America without the permission of the Orbán government.

  21. @ Joe

    “the left’s jubilation of this potential hit against Orban”

    Poor Joe ! How ill informed you and your pathetic little colleagues are about “the left” Most people on “the Left” consider the behavior of the EU as a disaster, and the EU’s capacity to manage change as tragically inept. Orbán’s, or Putin’s professed “conservatism”, the embrace of these two former communists of “Christianity”, and the utilization of the slogans of patriotism, is merely an affinity fraud, and no one knows that better, than those who are really conservative. More than half of the EPP, a group of conservative politicians voted for censuring Orbán’s political practices. Orbán’s claim to be a conservative, is an affinity fraud, and is designed to harness the fear of citizens of the unknown, by providing them with an easily graspable bait.

    What’s happening right now Joe is a word game, and you are in the thick of it. Donald Trump made his millions with this racket, that is predicated on eliminating the boundary line between illusion and reality. Do you recall the term “People’s Democracy” ? That was a word game foisted on the proletariat by the Stalinist fraudsters. Orbán, Putin, Kim, Erdogan, and petty dictators all around the globe, including many of the Mullahs in the Middle East, and yes, including Bibi, are engaged in this same witch-craft of framing their opponents, by eliminating the distinction between reality and illusion. As the Donald says – don’t believe what you see or hear with your own eyes and ears.

    Joe ! Affinity fraud works, it got Hitler, the Donald and many other politicians into power. It’s the oldest trick in the book. But it does not make it right. Wake up and smell the roses. Examine the bait, before you swallow it hook, line and sinker.

    • “More than half of the EPP, a group of conservative politicians voted for censuring Orbán’s political practices.” No doubt, you will consider the likes of Junker (migrant quotas) and Merkel (open borders) as being conservative. What this vote has done more than anything is that it exposed a lot of “conservatives” as being the kind of conservatives that the Red-Green leftists can certainly see eye to eye with on most issues. Your argument is a red herring.

  22. @ Morrison

    “Hungarian citizens must assume responsibility for their own fate”
    That’s what they did on April 8th, 2018.

    Troll, don’t you know that Hungarian voters have a long tradition of shooting themselves in the foot ? They are not alone in their curious way of behaving. Hitler too was elected to power. Stalin is the third most popular politician today in Russia, even though he had millions of his innocent countrymen butchered during his rule Check out the nerd in the White House. More than 60 million voted for him in the US. Popularity is not synonymous with wisdom. Smarten up, ball player.

  23. Robert Morrison says:

    Phil S. Stine on September 12, 2018 at 1:21 am

    “Hungary may well be safe for Jews (as is most if not all of the western world) in that they are not “bodily harm”ed, but there’s more overt anti-antisemitism there than I’ve come across anywhere else.”
    Unfortunately I have to agree with you on this. Somewhat.

    To start with we must agree that physical safety is paramount to feel well in a place. What you refer to “overt anti-anti-Semitism” is present all over the world and specifically in Western Europe where Jews are attached for wearing kippah (https://www.jpost.com/Blogs/My-Word/OVERT-or-COVERT-sntisemitism-does-it-really-matter-559660),
    and in the homeland of this blog Canada(https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/anti-semitism). What makes the difference is how the law and law-enforcers deal with such.

    Hungarian law is in par with Canadian, US and EU on this field and the authorities enforce it to the best of their abilities as they do in Canada. (https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium-orban-is-a-clever-anti-semite-corbyn-is-a-stupid-one-1.6292393) “But at the same time they have been at pains to emphasize that “personally” they feel perfectly safe as Jews in Hungary. Anti-Semitic incidents are down and the media, regulated by the government, has largely been cleansed from the once prevalent negative references to Jews. The only overt anti-Semitism they encounter is usually in the shape of non-politically-correct and ignorant remarks.”

    Mind control is not achieved yet and will take some time to do.

  24. Robert Morrison says:

    András B. Göllner on September 12, 2018 at 3:02 pm
    “Popularity is not synonymous with wisdom”
    I agree with you on this. So you should start a movement to strip every voter of their rights to cast their ballot the way they see fit unless they achieve 185 IQ and possess a diploma from one of the left leaning university s.a. Concordia or Berkley.
    Comrade, “don’t you know that Hungarian voters have” the same right to “shoot themselves in the foot” as all others including the 60 million that put “the nerd in the White House”?
    This is called DEMOCRACY. I know it is not liberal-democracy but so far it works.
    “Smarten up”, Professor! This is reality. Check it!

  25. @ Morrison

    Your definition of reality is flawed Bobby ! Unfortunately the Göllner Studio is now closed for beginners. You have exhausted your time-share with me. Feel free to take your somewhat worn tennis balls and practice on the wall next to the tenament building down the street. Just watch out for the windows, and be sure not to leave any of your balls behind. My dog loves to chew them to bits. He’s a retriever.

  26. Andras B.Gollner wrote; Sept 12, 3;02 pm.

    “…Hitler was elected…”

    Oh my God professor, just how can you make such a false statement ???

    Hitler NEVER had the chance to run for any office in Germany !
    Never had his name on any ballot !

    Only the name of the German Socialist Workers Party, that in 1932 received only 32% of the votes.

    It was Hindenburg on his death-bed that supposedly appointed him Chancellor.
    ‘Supposedly’, since he could not even sit up in his bed and raise his voice nor his finger.

    Oh well, mutti Merkel’s CDU received only 33% of the votes last time, and took over six months of dealings-wheelings for the party bosses, that none of them were elected by the people, to agree on a “government”.

    So, how in this world can you even use the word “elected” in your propaganda, when referring to any European event ???

  27. Robert Morrison says:

    Phil S. Stine on September 13, 2018 at 3:15 am

    “If you’re agreeing with me Bobby, I probably should re-examine my position.”
    This is the problem Philly, how could I agree with something that I do not agree with?
    Whether you re-examine your position or not is not my concern. 🙂

  28. Having read the Commission’s 66 page report, there is a lot to be said about it, on both sides, positive as well negatives.

    The complaints are far too vague, some just goes on rumbling and lists nothing to support the complaints.
    Not even listed in any order.

    On the recommendations made are reasonable and acceptable, in the west or in more advanced democratic societies.
    For assuming that Hungary could have accomplished many of them is far outlandish, and disregards the reality that existed and exist even today in Hungary.
    Like the old saying Rome was not build in one day.
    For Hungary simple thing will be more complicated to achieve, than suggested by the report.

    The mind-set is in the past. They are very distrustful of anything new, especially new way of doing basic things. But that is basic human nature.

    That is much the same I do express in my comments here, and even the professors in Canada only condemn me for it, or make joke of them.
    So just how can one assume that in the Hungarian countryside it would be taken as normal everyday functions.

    The “suggestions” are not outlandish, just not realistically compared to the situation on the ground in Hungary.

    Can not leave out the fact that Hungary , the people, including government officials that part of their thinking is stuck in the past regime’s ideology, while only hope to achieve something never before experienced methods.

    As well that Hungary, just as the EU has NO prior knowledge nor experience to practice “democracy”. Not even to comprehend how it may function when let the population do make all the decisions freely, and not the self-appointed government officials.

    On top of all that, it is very strange to read a criticism by an organization that is NOT consistent in its organization and function at all to any basic and fixed Constitution, nor any laws that strictly rest upon that very ideals, that can only be decided and approved only and directly by the general public.

    Dor Hungary and most foremewr Soviet block nations it took a generation to get to this. It will take another generation to get out of it and the people freely decide just where they want to go.
    Can NOT push ,nor force people to accept democracy and make it their own.
    They have to want it by their own free will !
    That must function better than their past.
    There has to be a new and better future other than their past was.

  29. @ Bendy goose

    “Oh my God professor, just how can you make such a false statement ??? Hitler NEVER had the chance to run for any office in Germany !”

    Bendy, why don’t you come to one of my classes, and make a fool of yourself ?

    Here are the facts, troll. Hitler was the leader of the National Socialist Party of Germany (the NSDAP), which won the largest share of the ballots cast – 37.3% – in the July 1932, as well as the November 1932 Parliamentary elections in Germany. Hitler’s National Socialist Party became the largest party in the Reichstag. As the largest Party in Parliament, the Nazis were entitled to select the President of the Reichstag and elected Göring to that post. As the leader of the largest parliamentary fraction in the Reichstag, the President of Germany, Hindenburg appointed Hitler as Chancellor of Germany on January 30, 1933. The rest is history.

    Bendy goose ! I know that Bob’s your uncle, and Fanny’s your aunt, but in my grading book, you’re listed as a dumb ass, like your friend Morrison, PVal, Joe, Martahurka, and the other trolls that come here to spread false information.

  30. I guess the goose has been shot down. 🙂

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